Speaker 1: 0:02

Hey, welcome back to the Surges of Income podcast. My name is Chris Moore And on this podcast, live on YouTube, we're talking about surges of income. Surges of income is income above and beyond your normal income. You get monthly from your job or from your business And it comes in in surges So you can take that money, apply it and grow your net worth, feed your investments. And this surges of income comes from sale of business, sale of the property, quarterly profit distributions, learning how to do business growth strategies to increase those profit distributions and to have businesses that are built to sell so you can cash out and make a lot of money, Excuse me. Lastly, surges of incomes come from learning digital marketing and learning how to do product launches and live events and sell a lot of something in a very short period of time.

Speaker 1: 0:52

That's what we talk about here on the Surges of Income podcast, and then each week we're going to dive in with somebody new and I'm going to mentor them live on what they're dealing with, that's stopping them from getting surges of income or that can help them get surges of income. So today I have a very special guest and I want to just open up all off the cuff and just give you as much value as I possibly can, based off what you're dealing with and what you want to learn right now. So can you go ahead and introduce yourself to everybody.

Speaker 2: 1:22

Oh yeah, Thank you, Chris. I'm Elden Cutlip. I'm a as a W2 programmer, a software engineer, for I don't know two and a half decades or something, And I had a couple of businesses. One software company was consulting and also software products that we had in the energy industry, And another business was a dating site, which I still technically have, but I don't really do much with it.

Speaker 1: 1:53

You mean with farmers only.

Speaker 2: 1:56

I would probably do better if it was.

Speaker 1: 1:57

Yeah, i just think that'd be really cool if it was.

Speaker 2: 2:04

Well and so. so what I do know is that in both those businesses, i failed in the areas of sales and marketing. So I think that you know that's where your skills are. So I'm totally like excited to hear what you think. And now, right now, i'm trying to find another business to buy. I'd like to buy a SaaS company, and I'd like to because I want to keep my W2. I really like my W2. So I like the people I work with and everything. but I want to buy a business that I can have somebody either already in there or put somebody in there to run it and then just, you know, hopefully do that again. But in all that, my fear, I'd say, comes from the fact that I've had two businesses and I did not grow them.

Speaker 1: 2:52

So, yeah, I got you. Yeah, no problem. One of the things that I want to talk about with you is actually the reasons that businesses don't take off, or if they fail or they don't do as well. Sometimes it has nothing to do with sales or marketing, right. Sometimes it has to do with culture in the business. Sometimes it has to do with a broken product market fit. Sometimes we have businesses that scratch an inch for us but no one else believes they're a problem, And I think that's one of the biggest things you have to stop and look back on and reflect and say the reason why this business didn't do well, was it just sales and marketing or was it something bigger, right?

Speaker 1: 3:31

And then sales and marketing good sales like great sales. Great marketing is not going to fix a bad business, right? So that's just kind of looking at that and not calling your business is bad. But a lot of times people start businesses and these are ones that you started, correct. They are A lot of times, when people start businesses, they're starting businesses that they saw opportunity or they saw a big problem that need to be solved, but sometimes not enough market research goes into it pre-starting a business, and we're not really able to predict success because there's not as many people who think this is a problem as you do.

Speaker 1: 4:07

Sometimes we start businesses, we call them scratch your own itch. Right, where we're scratching an itch, we're solving a problem for something that we see a problem but no one else really believes it's there, right? So I think that's where most people should start is demand. Is there enough demand for what I'm offering? Are people already buying it? Are people wanting it so badly they're throwing money at it constantly, and I think that's where you would start. So, rather than talking about just sales and marketing, i think you have to keep that in perspective as well, and I admire you for going after acquiring a business that's already been through the normal 96% of attrition that businesses go through over a 10-year period, where 96% of them end up failing or going out of business. So buying one of the 4% that survive definitely is a lot stronger of an idea than starting one for most people. Because starting a business, you don't have any people, no processes, no customers, no reputation, and it's much easier to tap into something that's already working. So let's assume that the business is fantastic. Let's assume that everyone wanted it. Let's assume that it was something that was really positioned to grow well.

Speaker 1: 5:17

But maybe the sales and marketing was the problem. First, you got to separate sales and marketing. For me, i look at marketing as in the ability to put your business out there and put it in the right light and frame it correctly so the people who are most likely to want and need your services are aware you're there. And sales is more around the sales process. How do you take a prospect, a lead, and convert them to actually paying you money? So they're so different. They can be very cohesive. They can be detrimental to each other and cause a lot of issues. So I guess, before I get into any of those too deep, maybe the business model was the problem. Maybe there wasn't enough demand. What are your thoughts? What do you think potentially went wrong with the other businesses?

Speaker 2: 6:12

Well, on the consulting software product business, that one, the industry was hot at that time as deregulated California energy industry market. It was basically like the people in the industry I think they called that process something like consultant, i forget. Basically it made a lot of demand for consultants and products too. So I think that that was good And I started a business that I had already had experience in because I worked for a different company before that that did similar things, and so I think that that part was good. But honestly, i can tell you this is so when I started my business, i made shirts, i made a website, i sheepishly went to my best, i'd say person to contact, right, and I literally went up to him. I could barely speak So messed up man, so barely speak. I don't even know if he understood what I was asking and I dropped the shirt in his chair because he had to go And like, honestly, that was the end of our sales right there. And we still had a business. I had partners and none of them sold either, but there was so much you know working was the sales. So when we went in and worked on jobs, we made contacts. That way People saw us, what we did and they wanted to do it for them. So there was some of that going. But then grow the business in a way that made my partners happy And I don't want to say couldn't.

Speaker 2: 8:13

I got to actually say I didn't try, you know? I mean, it was so pathetic what I did. We hired a person to do sales at one point, but the person was new, didn't have a track record, and so that didn't really work out well. We really needed to, i think, get somebody who had a good track record in the industry for sales And we just so we were basically like we were our partners could deliver really well. We could build software, we could solve the business problems. We had a business process analyst guy. That was amazing. So you know, we had, we could deliver, but we couldn't. None of us. None of us were comfortable selling anything.

Speaker 2: 9:04

So, and it was one of those businesses where you know you really needed to do face-to-face selling. You know It was kind of it was, you know, and it was there for the taking, but I messed it all up, honestly.

Speaker 1: 9:16

So desegregation of, or what was it exactly? So energy is essentially deregulation, where you could have some sort of broker or third party selling the energy instead of just the monopoly. Is that the kind of the concept behind that?

Speaker 2: 9:33

Yeah, it kind of made it like a like. Like a marketplace Yeah, a marketplace. So like one of the systems that we did was build for the California Power Exchange And they were like a day ahead market, essentially for electrical power And then we did work for the California Independent System Operator. They were the ones that kept the lights on.

Speaker 1: 9:59

They were for, like you were, the SDGME all these kind of players You were creating like enterprise level software for large conglomerates that are handling. So part of that is understanding maybe a couple of things that went wrong. B2b can be much more difficult for one Number two. You're going after very specialty, very niche, different entities. Maybe some of them are government entities, some of them the sales process is very convoluted and very difficult or very drawn out. Maybe you have to bid on gigs, you know. So that's like a big, large enterprise level type system. So to do that you can't do it half-assed. Of course, like you noticed, you have to have actually probably not just salespeople but business development Right. So if you get into the government contracting and these type of business to business, you have business development managers that go in and they specialize in specific sectors and industries and they create relationships and they bid on jobs and they go to like it's a very big thing. So it seems like maybe it was just an underdeveloped business model with great capabilities. You had great people behind the computers and the keyboards, great programmers solve some great problems, but you just never quite built the business model and the team out in the org chart to where it needed to be right. Yeah, exactly, so that's probably what it was.

Speaker 1: 11:19

So when you're in the B2B sales like that, it's a very different world than just hiring a salesperson, right? Because what I recommend in those type of scenarios is you always want to go out and find people not just with necessary experience and the ability to sell, but the easiest way to do it is to hire someone who already has the connections. Yeah, right, so that's the key. So I've talked to a lot of the people that I've mentored around this type of stuff and talked to about and they want to get into this more of a door-to-door or a gorilla style sales or it's business development. The goal is not to find someone who's great at sales, but find somebody who already has those relationships, right?

Speaker 1: 11:57

So if you're selling hospice and home healthcare and you need to hire three new people to come work for you, go either recruit people who already have those relationships with those doctors maybe who are pharmaceutical reps, maybe who are selling UTI labs like whatever and hire those people on to work with you, so you already have those relationships and that's how you can grow a lot faster. It's kind of like buying your market share rather than going out and earning it. Yeah, that's probably what happened there. Yeah, and that gets a little bit more difficult. So at that point it probably wasn't necessarily marketing, because that's not a business that you're going to market really well. It's more of a gorilla marketing strategy where you're using boots on the ground, you're having a presence at all the relatively focused events in the industry and trade shows and you're really just building relationships. So the reason why that probably failed was just an underdeveloped business model.

Speaker 2: 12:52

Yeah, and one of the things that we found that made a big difference too was just getting in the buildings, because there were high security, so basically like to meet and talk with those people. We, when we worked on site, we had access, and so I didn't realize there was something I learned was the company that I used to work for before I started business. Their software wasn't as good, it wasn't as reliable, it wasn't as stable, and so, because of that, they had to, the customers had to hire a consultant to stay on site to work with them, to keep the product going And I saw that as a flaw, but I didn't realize that that was actually probably a feature.

Speaker 2: 13:46

Yeah, it was Yeah, because then that person was in there being paid for by the client, essentially to sell. I mean it sounds weird, but that's really what I. I didn't realize it at the time. I realized it later. That's weird.

Speaker 1: 14:00

Makes sense. Well, let's dive into the another business. So let's not talk about necessarily what you've done in the past. I think from that we look at, sometimes it doesn't work because there's not enough demand. Maybe we did scratch your own itch, maybe we got to do a very complex industry with an underdeveloped org chart, with the wrong type of sales process. But moving forward, working on acquiring businesses and for anyone watching, just so you know, eldon is a part of our dealmaker protege program where I'm partners with Carl Allen at Dealmaker Well Society.

Speaker 1: 14:31

We teach people at a high level how to acquire cash-sling businesses that they don't have to run themselves. Businesses between one and five million in revenue, which is a sweet spot, under a million. You're buying a job from the seller. Over 10 million. You're dealing with private equity and trade buyers and family offices who are paying much higher multiples, right? So we're going after specifically that one to 10 million where there's millions of businesses for sale, only one end of 11, one and 12 actually sell, looking for good businesses with distressed sellers.

Speaker 1: 15:02

So, keeping that in full frame what we're talking about, let's talk about the type of businesses that you're looking to buy and then how can we rewrite the future and do it correctly and learn how to scale and market it correctly using sales and marketing. And that's what I'd like to talk about with you today and I'm gonna give you a road map. Tell me what type of businesses we talked about HVAC, potentially, and software as a service. So can you be more specific about the software as a service? Is there a specific type of software you're looking for? Is it B2B, b2c? and I can kind of go over what I would do.

Speaker 2: 15:34

I would really like, ideally, you know, I mean you kind of have to, you know you can't always get what you want, but I would really like to find something in, in, like a community, social media community kind of space, and I would like the, the customers, to be influencers like yourself, honestly. Okay, interesting, It's targeted, but that's ideally. That's what I'd like to find, you know, or, alternatively, I could probably pay somebody to build it, but Yeah, help me understand.

Speaker 1: 16:09

What are you hoping to be true after buying that specific type of business?

Speaker 2: 16:14

Yeah, so what I think is awesome about it is the access. So what I've learned from joining, like you know, a couple of these mentorships yours and Pace Morvey is that I should have been expanding my world a long time ago, and I really didn't think, you know, i really didn't. I'm not sure exactly why, but so what I love about Having a business that would market to influencers is I think I would Make my learning Exponential. So, honestly, that's why I want to do it. I think that there's a lot of need as well for tools around people, so so I feel like there's a good market there. I don't feel like I've seen, in the communities that I've been a part of, i Don't think I've seen it done Well, yeah, so I like the challenge.

Speaker 1: 17:15

You're thinking for a second. She's just. You know, just take the gloves off?

Speaker 2: 17:18

No, it's good.

Speaker 1: 17:20

You're a builder, you're a problem solver, you write code, you want to create. You see Opportunity. You got to get rid of that mindset for just a second. If you're gonna be buying a business, you got to look at it without necessarily that lens right. The idea of going after Specific type of software as a service company because you want the sideways after benefit of being in front of all these influencers, it's not the right reasons to buy right. So it'd be a great project, it'd be great to try to find out there, but once again, most people Who do that type of stuff They don't do the right legwork up front and they don't find out if there's enough demand to support it. Right. We usually solve problems. Just because it doesn't exist in the market now Doesn't mean it's a problem right.

Speaker 2: 18:05

So like is there a?

Speaker 1: 18:06

place where all these influencers get together and there's, but maybe they don't want to. A lot of influencers are like this, like I don't want to show you what I do because I don't want the whole world to go out and steal it. So I would challenge that thinking and say, when I'm looking at buying a business and I have my criteria, my buy box Which can translate real estate over to business buying I'm looking at what I'm hoping the business is gonna do for me financially. Number one, yeah. Are you looking for a business that's cash-loading a certain amount of money? Are we looking for a business that allows you to dive in and be the operator and be passionate and enjoy it and really feel like you're Doing a lot of really great stuff and helping people?

Speaker 1: 18:43

Do you just want to be the investor, where you don't have to really do much besides, maybe lead the vision? Are you looking to do something more on the consulting for equity? because you are a project oriented person and you are a problem-solver. So maybe going in and buying a business and being an investor would make you bored. Maybe you want to be a part of it, right?

Speaker 2: 19:03

Yeah, we love your.

Speaker 1: 19:04

W2. What if you could get even more money than what you make and come in and work inside the business? Maybe that would be a good fit, right? So I would? just I would look at it that way rather than trying to stare at it from a district. Yeah, i'd love to be around all these influencers, so I'd like to buy a business that already has access to it. So that's more of a scratch your own itch again, and that's the. That's the thing that most people get stuck with is stop going after scratch your own itch.

Speaker 1: 19:27

Scratch our itch is great for bolt-ons. It's great when you say, hey, i have a company We're spending tons of money over here, i want to own the company that we're paying and I want to absorb all their margins and enjoy the cost interviews. But before you have that bolt-on opportunity, it's kind of just. It's kind of maybe giving you paralysis of analysis at some level from taking action And you may be going way too focused niche into that industry looking for that unicorn that may not exist yet. So that's just my first initial feedback, so not saying it's wrong.

Speaker 1: 20:00

No, no, no mindset for business acquisitions.

Speaker 2: 20:03

Yeah, that makes sense, yeah, so. So when you talked about the level Of ash flow, i like, i like the level of cash flow to be around At least the income that I make now. In case something changes and then I feel like I would be a lot more prepared for that, and for sure, yeah, so, so I'd like it to be at least that level. As far as the rest, i You know the sass model. I like because I know it, you know, or at least the on the product side, and I like that. You know that I kind of understand, you know the how to get the right people there, understand the right processes For that. But but where I fall flat, though, and where I fear again is Is you know, in that case it would be marketing.

Speaker 2: 20:59

So so, like when I did my dating site, i I started learning SEO. I got it to The first page I think might have been like number three on the first page for free dating, and that took me a long time, and You know there's like matchcom and all these players out there. But So so I felt like I gained some understanding there of the SEO process, but it But I didn't have, and I did play with some facebook ads, some google ad words, but but I didn't have. I'd say my main flaw in that, in that particular business, was that I only had revenue from ad sends at the time. So if I would have set up affiliate marketing So that I was then getting paid as I send people to other dating sites and they sign up, that kind of a thing, then my cost to I forget what they call it, but basically my ad spend to get a customer And then get a sale, which in that case would be affiliate marketing, would probably work. My situation didn't work because the ad sends didn't pay enough for, uh, the cost of acquiring those customers.

Speaker 2: 22:17

Yeah, so, so I guess I would have all those sorts of things more in a sass product, and I really have not done that yet, which is cool, which I'd like to buy, a product that's already going. Problem I'm having in the sass thing, though, is a lot of the sass companies that I find are just They're not there yet. You know, they're kind of they built them, they're like me, they like built it, and and they don't really have so. So, like, the piece that I have to add value Isn't the piece they need understood so What does that tell you, though?

Speaker 1: 22:50

It says a couple things. One, if you are incredible at sales and marketing and you could go in and blow up a sass company, as long as it's got the right bones, the right demand, the right customer avatar, this would be a very different game, right? So your strengths are more on the stuff that you're saying they're already good at. So what that tells me is You need to find a business that's fully developed. You need to find a business that already has Sales and marketing, that has a great user interface, great user experience, it's got multiple ways It's being monetized. And and what's interesting is like, when I say what makes you interested and attractive to sass companies specifically, uh, most people would answer that extremely differently than what you answered. They'll probably love how it has monthly recurring revenue.

Speaker 2: 23:38

I love how persistent it is.

Speaker 1: 23:41

Uh, there's usually a ways to increase average Transaction value and frequency of purchase. It allows me to own my own customer list. It trades at a higher multiple, so if I want to sell it I can make more money. Like none of those were business reasons that you said. Yours was all very, very different, which, again, i think maybe one time at some level, when we're struggling With trying to go out and buy a business, i think maybe we're getting in our own way right.

Speaker 1: 24:08

So sass is something you're passionate about, you're good at, and sometimes it's not about just adding value.

Speaker 1: 24:14

Right, if you want to go in and add value, you actually buying an underdeveloped business is right, what you should do.

Speaker 1: 24:21

But maybe buying an underdeveloped business that needs what you can provide it rather than sales and marketing, if you want to buy a business and enjoy the cash flow, um, most of the time it's not necessarily going to need you to go in there and add that specific value for what you do, compared to maybe just buying it, being an owner, investor And then, if you're such a project oriented person and you want to solve these problems and you want to create, maybe you take that cash flow and it fund you starting a new business, because it seems like You can't take someone who's a creator and a sculptor and tell them they can't create and sculpt and you should do it Instead.

Speaker 1: 24:56

I think you should, but if you're going to try to leverage business acquisitions and tapping into cash flow And buying an existing profitable business that already runs itself, that has a prospecting in the sales and marketing engine to get the customers constantly, that's got good retention that you don't have to run, that could feed your passion. So it sounds like you're having a hard time meshing passion and Envision and how you can do it with business acquisitions.

Speaker 2: 25:24

That's what it?

Speaker 1: 25:24

sounds like to me I don't think you failed anything? I think that you were a part of two businesses that we're talking about. One was the consulting and software. it was underdeveloped. You had no customer acquisition strategy, and the one you had wasn't strong enough to be able to hire someone and replicate. The other part of it is the dating site, May have even started as a scratch your own itch. You may have seen a need. you may have seen a need.

Speaker 1: 25:53

Yeah, so that's why you did it. But once again, when people start businesses for that reason and they're passionate operators or technicians who are really good at something like coding and building and creating, it's almost more of you probably had just as much fulfillment from the process and from learning. So I think that's where it is To make a business like that fly. you've got a partner with somebody who's really really good at sales and marketing and penetrating new customer audiences and user experience and not just how to get people to site, but how to get them to subscribe and stick in, how to increase customer satisfaction. It's just everything you've told me so far has just been underdeveloped.

Speaker 2: 26:35

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 26:35

Right Yeah, what I do so well is I grow businesses. Everything I touch is gross, it's just gross And I'll tell you here's the secret You ready?

Speaker 1: 26:45

Yeah, it's not sales and marketing. Okay, it's business model. It's having the right business plan. It's about learning how to build redundancy. It's about having customers and leads coming in from every angle so you can't be taken out from one market shift. That's the key here. But the biggest key is, no matter how good your business is, your business model, if there's not enough demand and you're not attracting the right customers and you're not going after the right customers, it's not gonna do well. So I think looking at the entire business is the key, and that's why buying a business that's already survived the 10 years and the 96% attrition rate that's already got people, processes, customers, reputation, prospecting, engine, sales, people, management If you're going after cash flow to fund your passion, that's where I would go. I would get rid of a lot of the criteria that you were talking about.

Speaker 2: 27:34

Right.

Speaker 1: 27:35

The stuff I try to buy a business that's gonna give you the money you want to go do what you enjoy, right?

Speaker 2: 27:41

Yeah, i like that a lot too, because the other thing is that, just as a person, what really motivates me honestly, most I'd say is learning. So I would enjoy if I could purchase a business and it was running well. I would enjoy learning the parts of that business that I don't currently understand.

Speaker 1: 28:04

Yeah, you just gotta make sure you don't get in there and break something that's working, you know.

Speaker 2: 28:08

But learning process huge.

Speaker 1: 28:10

One of the reasons I've done well what I do is I study business models right. You can put me in front of a roofer. I speak their language, i know how they get paid. I know how they charge. I know how they bill. I know how they find customers. I know when they get customers. I understand who's actually paying the bill. I understand the concept of working with insurance agencies, like I could go buy a roofing company because I understand it.

Speaker 1: 28:31

I've studied all these business models right, so for someone like yourself who loves to learn and loves that challenge. While you're thinking about buying a business and doing that, why don't you go start studying business models? And what I mean by that is pretty simple criteria. Imagine if I wanted to look at any business name, one like a nail salon. I don't know anything about nail salons. Can I buy 100% because I'm really good at business? But I would walk in and I'd start learning about nail salons, like how do they get customers? What's their average transaction value? What are their margins like on their profit? How much does that really cost to have those little nails? Is it more labor than it is materials? What kind of storefront and how many square feet is it gonna take to do well at this?

Speaker 1: 29:13

Usually for a small market, small city or large city, how many nail salons can one area support? Is there an equation for the population When it comes to the people they hire? are they trained in a certain way? Is there something called a nail tech school for all these nail techs to go to? Why are most of them owned by families from Asia? And I'm gonna start studying the model. How do they get customers? Do they ever go on sale? Why are they so cheap? How do they do cross sales? when you walk in, what's the sales process? like I'm gonna go talk to people in that industry, right? So someone like you who wants to learn and absorb all that like I am, because I'm this is very similar. I wanna learn it all.

Speaker 1: 29:51

So they start diving in and learning about the specific industries outside of HVAC and outside of SAS and say, where do I find the most, where do I get the most excited about it or where do I see the most opportunity, and start learning about it. And when you do that you start to develop more of what we call horizontal skill set Someone who has the ability not just staying in their lane but has the ability to affect change and understand and grow pretty much any business right.

Speaker 1: 30:20

Someone like yourself who loves to learn and solve problems, why don't you tackle digital marketing? Why don't you learn how to do digital marketing and sales copy and funnels? And why don't you study human computer interaction and sales behavior? And because anything you go into at that point, that skill is gonna serve you for life.

Speaker 2: 30:39

I would like. I would enjoy that too, and I've recognized that I don't even know really how to start. honestly, like I said, i tried a little with my dating site, but I didn't really where you know, what do you recommend?

Speaker 1: 30:59

I got a lot. Actually, we were at Dealmaker Weekend in Tampa and someone asked me this question, somebody who wanted to go the path that I went. So I had literally wrote down every single course that I would recommend someone take. But I think it's more about understanding what skills are needed right. So if you could go back and be successful in one of the two businesses we were talking about the dating site, which I think you still have, or the old consulting company for the deregulation of energy in the US, what would have had to be true for you to be successful in those businesses? And I don't think it's the lack of skill or knowledge you had, number one, i think it's the fact that the business models underdeveloped and maybe one to two key players could have partnered with you and taken it to the next level In today's world with the dating sites. I think probably things have changed a lot since when you launched it. How long ago was that when you launched it?

Speaker 2: 31:48

Yeah, it was like 2010 or maybe less. Oh yeah, so huge.

Speaker 1: 31:53

There's been dating sites that got a billion dollar enterprise values and then fallen since then, right So you can come in.

Speaker 1: 32:01

So the big thing for me is like you have to look and see if that business was gonna do well. Is it a skill that I'm missing? Or is it the right player in the right seat, cause you can't play every position. So for me, i hire somebody who has your shared vision, who has a proven track record of being able to acquire clients, get the right message in front of them, get people to opt into the site and use it. Or you may say, hey, is it time for me to just scrap this? Or if I'm making money on AdSense and it just runs itself, why don't I just focus on expanding my traffic so I can make as much money on AdSense and it's just a passive income stream?

Speaker 1: 32:37

Who says you have to dive deeper, right? Yeah, that's just some concepts for me. Like I have a friend named Rob I used to live next door to him in another city I lived and he is a specialist in SEO and driving traffic and making money from affiliate clicks and making money from AdSense. Like he can grow that thing in a heartbeat. That could be a good. If there's enough demand in it, that could be a good partner. So sometimes we're not missing a skill set.

Speaker 1: 32:59

We're missing the right person, cause we don't need to be good at everything, but for you specifically, i would talk about focusing on buying a business that's going to get you to the cash flow you want, maybe to fund You starting and creating and sculpting and building new things, because that's kind of hardwired in your DNA.

Speaker 2: 33:19

Yeah, you're right. Yeah, my daughter said the same thing, because as I started looking at One of the businesses that I wanted to buy, Then I started looking at Man, i could build that, and then my daughter's like I knew you, you, that is, you're gonna start doing.

Speaker 1: 33:35

Building businesses is not a negative thing. It's fine. I build a couple and sometimes it makes more sense to build right. Yeah, but I think the overlying principle of am I solving a problem people are willing to pull out their wallet to solve? That's the first thing. are people already pulling out their wallet to pay for this problem to be solved? Is this demand There's enough for everyone to go around? am I able to do it better, faster, stronger than the other competitors in the field? Can I clearly articulate that? my marketing message? Yeah, and a lot of times you're just the one person. You got to have other people in play.

Speaker 1: 34:07

So another thing you can do in your position just some thoughts Is think about being inside a dealmaker protege. You've got 500 plus other protege's in there. How much are you interactive with those people and said, hey, here are all the skills that I have, here are all the things that I'm really really good at. I would love to have the ability to partner with you and maybe do more of the actual sweat equity part of it and come in and work on these projects that you're already working on, like I can tell you Several people who also are in the similar industry that you are, that have a lot of business savvy, that have lots and lots of Deal flow and they could easily plug you into one of those deals and let you go run and operate it or Or fix some things like.

Speaker 1: 34:49

There's a lot of ways to utilize your your God-given skills in that group, so I don't know what would stop you from doing that, but that's also another option There's a lot of people that we work with that their first deal comes in a partnership Because I'm gonna get alone. Is is daunting. It's a big process. We all have things going on. We get busy. Sometimes we're nervous about certain parts of the process where there's other people out there that are experts at that part And they're missing, you like. So think about. Have you ever heard of EOS entrepreneur operating system?

Speaker 2: 35:20

I had to look that up because I saw that in in one of your last shows.

Speaker 1: 35:25

Okay, well, eos is entrepreneur operating system. There's a book called traction and essentially it's an organization that teaches entrepreneurs and online businesses a operating system to run their business and usually talks about visionary and the integrator. You are kind of a visionary and an integrator. You have lots of different visions and thoughts, but it comes down to it, you are a project manager, are you not at some level?

Speaker 2: 35:48

I mean, it's funny because I you know, for my W2 I'm a developer. But what tends to happen with me as I end up Working as essentially a project manager as well, because I don't like to let anything fall through the cracks, and I try, you're a perfect integrator, right.

Speaker 1: 36:03

So there's so many visionaries inside of our protege group that you would pair really well with, who have the ability to go out and Buy businesses faster and easier than maybe you can. Maybe they have more deals available, maybe they've got Some crazy financial ability to make deals happen, even if it's not a leveraged buyout, and they're looking for people that can operate and be integrators, right. And it's not to go and give you a job, but being a part of something you own, and working in a business that you own, compared to working in a business You don't, is a very different feel, right?

Speaker 1: 36:34

So look at me, my, my thing is consulting for equity And then I worked full-time inside of dealmaker Well society on the COO part owner about half the company. I work in the business that I own. It's very different to me working in a business that I don't right right. So it's okay to want to work as well. It's okay to be a problem solver. That's why I said I think you'd be bored as an owner investor.

Speaker 2: 36:56

Maybe I Well, i do know, i do know that I would, if I did have that going, i would, like I say I still want to do, i do want to keep my W2, people that I work for, and everything but. But so I do know, though, if I had that business and I knew it was run pretty well, i would want to Not slow anybody down, but I would want to learn from the people involved And also you have things that you've experienced that can help.

Speaker 1: 37:28

And then even doing a deal like that, where you can be Somewhat of an integrator and operator. You can also do that part-time, where you don't have to put your W2.

Speaker 2: 37:35

Yeah, that's Yeah, that's what I think. Yeah, I think that's what would work best for me.

Speaker 1: 37:42

Yeah, yeah. So why not go and make some connections and start talking to people and say, here's what I got, here's what I do, here's what I'm great at? I'd love to have the opportunity to work with you on one of the deals that you're trying to work on. I can step in as a consultant, i can step in as even managed projects and all those things, and just There's a lot of opportunity in that there's a lot of people going after those type of businesses.

Speaker 1: 38:03

Another thought is if you have the ability to grow and And even create something like a dating site, like you've done, why aren't you digging through flipa Dot com, the live ppa and looking at what other sites you could buy for very little money and Revive them? if you like a project, you like a challenge, why not take something like that plug in add sense and boost the traffic, focus on SEO And do that a couple times a year until you have four or five sites that are income producing for you, just on add sense alone, right? So if you're if you don't want me asking, how much money does the add sense generator, how much did it generate at its peak for your dating site?

Speaker 2: 38:40

I never did very well.

Speaker 1: 38:42

I only had like a hundred dollars a month at the top, okay so, what would have to be true for you to make more Well one, you'd have to find somebody Who's really really good at SEO, like you did well, on that one generic keyword. But what about all the long tails and right Funnel traffic? so you can connect like a friend with my name, rob, and he can show you all that stuff and partner with you on it and Build up, and you guys can go and flip websites and buy websites that have lots of traffic, plug in your system of monetizing it And then sell the website at a 30x multiple over monthly revenue. That's what he does. It's so.

Speaker 1: 39:17

There's just so many different ways to make money Utilizing the same kind of stuff you have now. Yeah, that sounds very interesting, interesting, right. So then there's buy side brokers who work for these International website brokers and you can call them and tell them what you're looking for and they can connect with you and find these Sites for you and and even negotiate it like a business broker. There's ways for you to go, do all kinds of stuff like that. So I think the world's so much bigger than what we think it is And we kind of put ourselves in a box sometimes and we don't know what direction to go in. But I think for you just exploring and getting some more perspective and being very proactive about testing these different things and Digging through Flippa and seeing if anything looks really cool to you.

Speaker 1: 40:01

I'm not a huge fan of brokers in general, but that's a specialty broker and Yes it's.

Speaker 2: 40:06

Yeah, I don't think you're doing wrong.

Speaker 1: 40:08

In general, i don't think the reason why you didn't grow your last business is had anything to do with your ability to do sales or marketing, like we Originally started talking about. I think it was more of The business was started for maybe a reason that wasn't strong enough to start the business, or it was an underdeveloped business Model that did not set you up for success from the very beginning. So Yeah to talk so much there, but that's kind of where my head's at.

Speaker 2: 40:34

No, it's good, yeah, i appreciate it. I mean, i really appreciate it.

Speaker 1: 40:38

I know the skills you have For me are like incredibly valuable from my point of view, so I really appreciate that and that goes back to I Think what we do in life is needs to be very intentional and what we learn needs to be very intentional, like so were you in Tampa.

Speaker 2: 40:57

Yeah, no, i wasn't, but I was in the, The one in Atlanta.

Speaker 1: 41:02

Yeah, i remember that we talked to Elena. We also hung out in Nashville, yeah.

Speaker 1: 41:06

Yeah, but in Tampa on stage, i spoke on a subject called the top five investments that pay the highest ROI in 2023, and I have a YouTube video that touches on this a little bit, but I have a lot much longer Video that I can send you from on stage, and one of the things that I talk about is Investing in skill sets that can pay huge amounts of money in any economy, that no one can ever take away from you. So I think, going back to what we talked about before, there are some skills that maybe you'd really enjoy learning, like maybe really deep dive in digital marketing, specializing in SEO, increasing web traffic, in monetizing that traffic Maybe that'd be a great thing for you to learn. Maybe learning user experience And user interface design So if you had a better design on your website when you had more traffic, could you have kept it longer? Could you have converted to more people subscribing? Maybe learning paid ads would be a great strategy for you and learn how to be a media buyer, like there's all these different things that are in high demand. They pay a lot of money.

Speaker 1: 42:08

Now What's media buyer? I don't know.

Speaker 2: 42:10

I'm a runs ads for for a. They buy media run ads for the.

Speaker 1: 42:12

Google ads, facebook ads, right, ticktock, programmatic things like that. So there's all these different things that would probably give you a lot of fulfillment and scratch that itch Because of your personality and the way that you like to dive in and learn things and Problem-solving, but and doing it in a way that pays a lot more money. Right now, you keep running into businesses that you're interested in, but they already have your skill set, so why not go learn the skills that they're missing? What's the one thing that everyone's missing that people would pay you so much money if you knew. Why not go learn it?

Speaker 2: 42:43

That makes sense to me because, like the things that we that I see on flipa also acquire com, those businesses mostly need somebody to take them to the next level. They you know the ones have like a good idea and they have a good, you know, starting product and they have some customers, sure, but usually the ones that are at an affordable price need to Need to have those skills. So I really like that idea. I think that makes a lot of sense to me. What that's in demand? right? so it comes back to the product demand.

Speaker 1: 43:15

What about skill demand? What's the one thing that everyone wish they had more of in their business? What's the one thing that everyone wished they had more of in their business? What's the one position that would unlock a new level of revenue For their business? right? so I teach on all kinds of stuff, and have you seen my consulting for equity training? I think I did. Yeah, it's really powerful.

Speaker 1: 43:38

I'll pull up on my slides here and I'll show you a couple things real quick. But one of the things that most people forget to figure out or forget to focus on is what do business owners Actually want, right? So let me see if I can share my screen. You never know what direction these things are going in when we hop on these calls. Yeah, yeah, consulting friend, can you see this right here? It looks like it popped up, right? So here's one of the Things that I do a lot if we talk about consulting correctly, and one of the things that it's Really important to remember is what do business owners really want, right?

Speaker 1: 44:11

So when you go in and talk to a business owner who's looking to sell their business, take it to the next level. They're looking for someone to strategically partner with or sell part of their business to. They really want specific things. They want increased sales. They want more profit or higher profit margins. They want more time for themselves, they want to relieve stress. They want to spread out the risk. They want to expand the new markets Right, they want to expand their product or service offering, or they want to hand off responsibilities. And which one of those are you good at? which one of those are you going to take off their plate?

Speaker 2: 44:42

right.

Speaker 1: 44:44

Or you have something of value that you want to exchange for part of their business right.

Speaker 1: 44:49

So, when you, when you dive into these type of conversations, imagine, like the sass companies you're talking about, where these are the problems they're having, yet you haven't specialized in these things. Yeah, the only thing that you could do for them is take over some of the stuff They're doing the day-to-day, because that's also your skill set. But if I was gonna go out and learn a new skill, i'd learn how to accomplish these things. This is what I do. I can get you more sales. I can get you stronger margins. I can help you buy your time back. If something's stressing you, we can solve that problem. Spreading out the risk is giving me part of your business, right. So that's the kind of thing. Maybe Start learning and using that as a guide.

Speaker 2: 45:28

Yeah, that's owner wants this.

Speaker 1: 45:29

Every one of them, Yeah that's awesome man.

Speaker 2: 45:34

I I feel very inspired.

Speaker 1: 45:37

And there's so many ways to do it right. Yeah, yeah, help them solve a major problem in their business. Okay, you can help them exit the day-to-day activities so you can let they can have their time back and you can take over. You can go out and have a whole bunch of Verified wins and people want to give you their business or say can you go do this in my business? I saw what you did, right, people come to me all the time. There's all kinds of ways that you can do that, so I just wanted to share that with you a little bit, but maybe that would be a good thing for you.

Speaker 1: 46:06

So, identify first, what do people want? What's already in demand? Well, people really need every company I've been in is needed Someone who can come in and really increase sales and marketing. They can add redundancy. They can get multiple ways to generate customers. They've got a great sales process is a proven path to purchase And then they can build it in a way where they can step away and do it again like go learn that right and Yeah, that's awesome because that's so the skill set that I felt that I needed before.

Speaker 1: 46:37

So, yeah, i really like that And this is a good use of your time, because once you learn this and get good at it, even proficient, it's gonna serve you for the rest of your life. It's gonna serve you as you have an opportunity to work and do something when, anytime, you need right. If you had something to happen, you needed to go get more work or wanted to make more money or jobs. You have a new skill set That's in high demand, yeah, and it's not as it's not as quantifiable is maybe what you're doing now, or what a lot of people do when it's around Technology and coding, there's some sort of norm around how much you should be paid. Right compared to this is it's the sky to the limit.

Speaker 1: 47:15

Like my skill, as I grow businesses right hard to put a worth on that. I can charge whatever I want. Yeah, i really can, if you know how to do it. So, yeah, maybe that's a good path for you to go down, and Maybe, at the same time, though, you can also go after buying a business that not necessarily is gonna fit that scratch your own itch for you, but just gonna pay the money that you need to make and open up your options a lot more and have that and treat that as a maybe in an investor and then possibly, as a You know, do a little R&D maybe in there.

Speaker 1: 47:53

Yeah, yeah, seems like we're breaking up a little bit maybe my signal. But yeah, that's, that's Make sure you don't let that danger slip, slip in there. But I'm also gonna go into business and do this.

Speaker 1: 48:10

I know, make sure you treat it for what it is. Yeah, i don't know there's too much more for us to discuss This moment. I really just for anybody who's listening now. We came on the call more talking about sales and marketing and how to grow based off the Perspective of I've had some business in the past. I felt like that was holding me back, kind of identified that that maybe wasn't the problem.

Speaker 1: 48:34

One is, maybe there's not enough demand or as underdeveloped business That just wasn't set up for success from the very beginning. So another thing you can do and this is what I really urge you to do is really Learn the game of business. I don't know how many books you've read self-improvement books specifically on business and how businesses operate and how businesses grow and the way that they should be structured and I would read a lot about that because, no matter what you do, every one of these is gonna be a business and understanding that's gonna really take you to the next level. Read the book traction that we just talked about. Oh, yeah, i think I had that on my back, yeah that's a great book, so read that book.

Speaker 1: 49:10

I could even just pull up my audible real quick and show you five or six of them anybody else who's watching? I'm gonna show you my audible and I'll tell you what books I would read specifically around this subject. So I'm gonna go and Getting a one-time password from Amazon. So let me do this real quick and we'll end this episode of the Serves of Income podcast with Chris's audible behind the scene. Let me show you what I would suggest that you start reading. Okay, okay, let me pull this up here And we'll look at audible real quick. This is live, but I don't care, we're having fun with it. Here we go, so let's go look at some books.

Speaker 1: 49:51

Okay, okay, this is a great book to read the great game of business, expanded and updated. Great book for you, and this is gonna give you just a little bit more information around business models and really How businesses operate and I think, for you to have more of that knowledge. If you had that knowledge back when you were doing these other businesses, would you have benefited from it? Absolutely, i love it. Yeah, built to sell definitely something I'd encourage you to read. Not quite yet. I think that's more of something you need to read a little later. Specifically for you, i would also encourage you to read the emith, absolutely. If you haven't read the emith 100%, i think I ordered it but I haven't read it yet Yeah, emith is definitely wonderful.

Speaker 2: 50:38

Get a grip is also very, very good an entrepreneur.

Speaker 1: 50:40

I think you're gonna have to get a grip on it. I think you're gonna have to get a grip on it.

Speaker 2: 50:46

I think you're gonna have to get a grip on it. I'm not sure about that, but I haven't read it yet.

Speaker 1: 50:50

Yeah, emith is definitely wonderful. Get a grip is also very, very good an entrepreneurial fable. That's something I would encourage you to read as well. But really, i think studying business and understanding how businesses operate, how the businesses that are the most successful in the world operate, what kind of players are in place, who's in charge of what, understanding how people get customers and how businesses get customers, how business profit margins work and I think really that's the biggest thing I would start with. Specifically, i think rocket fuel is a great one. Traction, get a grip on your business is the Gino Wickman about the EOS. There's so many different options for you, but I think to start with, i would read that one book that I came across the first a great game of business. I think that would be really helpful for you to read that And start learning business models a lot more, and I think you'll have a lot easier time Identifying when something's not working quicker, as well as you can identify faster How you could put the right people into play To work better. So there you go.

Speaker 1: 51:53

Well, I appreciate you being on here with me.

Speaker 2: 51:56

I am really I'm grateful to have this much time with you and I thank you. My pleasure, man, my pleasure.

Speaker 1: 52:03

We don't live very far apart from each other, right? so you gotta.

Speaker 2: 52:06

I know right yeah.

Speaker 1: 52:07

Let me know if you want to hang out. I'm gonna be in Nashville every once in a while. Well, I'm gonna be there quarterly for for EOS meetings.

Speaker 2: 52:14

But yeah, yeah, if you get around Nashville Anytime, man and and I I can definitely drive over there. If, if that is at all, maybe we'll go fishing. I enjoy, i grew up on fishing, so awesome.

Speaker 1: 52:30

Well, we have a boat.

Speaker 1: 52:31

We live right here on the lake, so Well, you have a great day. I'm gonna go ahead and end this episode of the Surgeons of Income podcast. I would encourage you. If you've watched this, i would go and look at the books that I'm recommending. I would read these books. I'd also look at what type of business acquisition strategy is going to be right for you.

Speaker 1: 52:50

And then sometimes also the big takeaway for me is sometimes the things that we think are problems When we start talking to somebody end up maybe not being the actual problem. It's something different, right? so in this case, it wasn't really sales and marketing, it was more. You weren't really set up for success to begin with for those two businesses. So, moving forward, we've got to learn from those type of things that happened in the past. Let's look forward in the right direction, and then the one big takeaway for you is go learn some really valuable skills That every one of these businesses that you're looking at or that you've worked in the past would absolutely benefit from. Maybe go unlock that growth in the future businesses that you're going to acquire or build Using these newfound skill sets right, and I think that would be a great fit for you.

Speaker 2: 53:33

Yeah, i agree.

Speaker 1: 53:35

I agree. Well, you have a lovely day. I'm going to go check on a couple things I've got going. My slack's blowing up like crazy. Thanks for tuning in. We'll see you in the next episode of the Surgeons of Income podcast.