Speaker 1: 0:00

2001,. The economy was in a tough spot. So I came out I was doing like working for an IT company, awful job. My boss was like the biggest jerk, this guy's making $50,000 a month. And I asked him like what did you do before? Like, I worked at an auto parts, an auto zone. I was a cashier. I'm like wow, like okay, there's something else that these people are doing, or something that they have and are doing, or something that they have, and I started to notice some patterns in people.

Speaker 2: 0:24

Here's an interesting concept. Not sure if you've ever heard this from me, but Carl and I teach this. It's a concept I came up with about two years ago, and it's the concept of trading your business for a new one. My guiding principles are tattooed on my arm. I don't know if you guys have all seen them, but it says to teach, guide and mentor, and really for me, that is the success indicator. Okay, what else? What else should I be doing, though, cause I think this is important. People don't know what they don't know.

Speaker 1: 0:46

If you scroll down a little bit more we can look. So one of the things that we can do is like there's questions and answers. So that question was asked four months ago, we could answer that and then we could ask additional questions. As the owner, we can put in the most common questions that are being asked and answer those.

Speaker 2: 1:02

If you want fragmented results, have a fragmented marketing approach. Like, if you want to be able to bring someone general results, be a generalist, right. But if you really want to get extreme growth and predictable growth, you've got Beyond your paycheck. It's surges of cash that you can use to grow your net worth and feed your investments. Hey, welcome back to another episode of the Surges of Income podcast. I'm your host, chris Moore.

Speaker 2: 1:29

Today we have a very, very special guest my dear friend, business partner, colleague, ky Jelly Wrestling partner, patrick Shannon. I'm just kidding about the KY Jelly Wrestling, but that's kind of interesting. Welcome to the show, patrick. Thanks, buddy, it's great to be here. Yeah Well, people probably don't know who you are yet, but they're about to and I thought it would be really cool to have you on the show, because if I can brag on you for a second and then I want to kind of go into a little bit about what the podcast is about and then we'll jump in. But let me brag on Patrick for a minute. He's really really, really interesting guy. I mean you've done some pretty cool stuff. Like, if you go over your background the word professional poker player, those words will pop up Um software engineer, self-taught CPA, um, soccer player overseas, like all these really interesting things all coming in combination and you're on a totally different trajectory and path than any of those things now, but I bet all of them lead up to the greatness that you're living as we speak.

Speaker 1: 2:29

So just an interesting guy and I think your story is going to be really powerful for my listeners. Awesome, yeah, I actually wasn't a CPA, but was an accountant.

Speaker 1: 2:38

But yeah, it's definitely been a journey. You know, following one path leads to another and uh, you know, chris, it's like it took some time to really be able to have the courage to follow my heart and and and with that there's just been, I just kind of refuse to do things I don't want to do and and like let's do the stuff that is going to light you up I think so which one was first?

Speaker 2: 3:03

so let's go in a timeline, because this is going to be interesting.

Speaker 1: 3:06

Like was the accounting before the soccer and before the, the poker or yeah, so, um, you know, played soccer growing up from the time I was young, 17 years old, I was on a team. We traveled and played against the uh junior professional teams throughout Europe which was amazing, um, unbelievable experience.

Speaker 1: 3:24

Just kind of like see how big the world is and see teams throughout Europe, which was amazing, unbelievable experience. Just kind of like see how big the world is and see these other kids that are in the farm system for these big, you know premier teams in Europe and kind of the pathway that they're on and you know we're trading shirts with them after the game, which was like such a cool experience. And then, yeah, I came back and went to college and came out of school in like 2001. The economy was in a tough spot. So I came out.

Speaker 1: 3:49

I was doing like working for an IT company Awful job. My boss was like the biggest jerk and it was like one of those moments in my life where I look back on it, where this guy was just being like abusive to me. But it was hard to find a job and it's like what are you going to take? Are you going to take like you're going to put up with this, or are you going to you're going to like put a fork in the road and be like that's not how my life's going to go. So I quit and then, you know, worked as a tax accountant for the next couple of years. That was awful, but um a lot of learning in there, though, too I bet.

Speaker 2: 4:23

And so from there, were you living overseas still, or are you in america, like, where were you at that time?

Speaker 1: 4:29

yeah, I was only overseas for a couple months playing soccer, um. So I I had uh, I was living in uh grip and dayton, ohio, so I went to school at the university of cincinnati and then moved back to where I was from and you know I was working as a as an accountant in dayton and um, you know I hated the accounting as a as an accountant in Dayton and um, you know I hated the accounting and I couldn't understand why. Over time, it was like certain personality types that are going to be drawn to certain professions and I couldn't deal with this. The monotony of we're doing something very similar every day. Like I need change, you know. So it's kind of playing poker with my buddies on the weekend and it was like, after a while, I was like man, I'm like I'm making more money on the weekends with playing poker off my friends than I am as an accountant, and I was super scared online. This was like 2003, 2004. Online poker had just taken off and I was so scared to put money online. Poker, that's like whoa, that's like this is real you know I'm still scared to do that it's like yeah I'm gonna

Speaker 1: 5:32

put this in here and it's gonna disappear and that's gonna be the end of it. And um, eventually I was like I'll try it. I put 50 in and I was playing poker. I would like wake up early in the morning and play poker before I had to be at work, and then I would come home and I'd play until like midnight, one in the morning, and I was doing that every day, then all weekend, and this was going on for a while. But I put $50 in and about a month later I had $10,000 in there and I was like, wow, this is like uh, I hadn't really had access to that type of money as an accountant, that quickly, you know.

Speaker 2: 6:05

So did you stay online forever? Did you ever switch over to like casinos?

Speaker 1: 6:15

Yeah, I switched over. You know it was. It was easier living in Ohio. There there was a casino that was in in Indiana and I would. I would drive down there sometimes and play there. I really like the in-person aspect of it. But it was kind of like blending with online poker. You get so many hands so quickly, you see so many situations. It's like it's being put in. It's dramatically increasing the speed at which you can learn. So that's what online poker was.

Speaker 1: 6:43

I played in a tournament and the prize for the tournament was a cruise. So I went on that cruise and on the cruise that had a tournament and the prize for that was a cruise. So I won that cruise and I was like, well, this is, this is a lot better than me in accountant. This is like this. This just felt I felt like I was at home, like I slipped into an old pair of comfortable shoes, you know, and was at home Like I slipped into an old pair of comfortable shoes, you know.

Speaker 1: 7:06

And and then I won a ticket for the world series of poker and they paid for, like, my flight and hotel and the ticket to get into, you know, the world series of poker out in Vegas and I went out there and and while I was, I was out there for like a week and a half and I won a bunch of money. And that's when I came back and I was like I can't be an accountant anymore. This is, you know, it's, it's beyond this. And eventually I moved to Las Vegas and, you know, started playing the casinos and they banned online poker, so that kind of forced people to go to the casino or like you're not going to play anymore.

Speaker 2: 7:34

Wow, I mean, it's so crazy to see what you're doing now. Just for everyone's knowledge, who's listening or watching on YouTube? Patrick now owns multiple companies, business partner of mine in one of our companies. He has a really cool SaaS business He'll tell you all about in just a minute. We'll go over that. He also has a marketing agency, very niched down, specializing in specific home services industry and as well as donates tons of his time to coaching. And we also have a coaching company where we coach marketing agency owners on how to really grow their MRR, put in the right systems in place, hiring and everything they need to do to be able to scale. So it's amazing how you took poker and now you shifted to that. So let me ask you a question what lessons did you learn while playing poker professionally that are transcending into your daily life now and in your business?

Speaker 1: 8:27

and in your business. Yeah, there's a lot. There's a lot of things that you don't know at the time, that later you just be like oh, like emotional control, right, that's something that is a part of us every day. And when you're in a situation for a decade where it's like, hey, I'm a favorite to win in this situation and I lose and I'm a favorite to win, and if you don't have that emotional control, then that can snowball in a bad direction in a hurry. So I mean that helps how, how much work it actually takes to be excellent at something. Right, we I think most people look at it and they don't realize what it is.

Speaker 1: 8:59

But playing poker for a living is extremely cutthroat. You know they say like 5% of people make all the money and 95% are losing money. So like if you're going to be in that 5%, if you're going to live off that and you're going to live comfortably, you can't just be like in the 5%, you need to be kind of towards the top of that too. So it takes a lot of effort and a lot of work and you know there's a lot of discipline. You know some people out there that maybe they're smart enough and good enough to go and party all night and then come back and play well, the next morning. I wasn't, so I had to take it. I meditated, I exercised, I slept well, I studied, I hired coaches and I just realized how much work it took to actually get a result, and prior to that I really didn't understand that part of it.

Speaker 2: 9:48

It's funny in business acquisitions, which is my main focus, we actually had a deal come through one of my pipelines of a poker and dealer in-person school in Las Vegas that was looking to sell. I don't know why I didn't think of it. We should have collaborated on that. That would have been pretty fun.

Speaker 1: 10:07

Yeah, that'd be interesting it may still be for sale.

Speaker 2: 10:09

I'll have to take a look at it. I've got a couple of our protégés in Vegas who were looking at it with me, so but it's interesting. So let's fast forward all the way to modern times and kind of what you're working on now the first time. Once again, I'm Chris Moore. This is the Surges of Income podcast. Surges of Income, just like you've heard in the beginning of this podcast, is all about how to make money in surges in large amounts, beyond and above your normal monthly income you make from your job or your businesses. The reason why that's important is this is where wealth can really happen much faster. It's taking that money and being able to apply it to buying rental properties and putting it into assets and really growing your net worth. And we really strongly believe here at Surges of Income that being able to focus on that, being able to measure that and then really whatever you water grows. So if you're not out there seeking out Surges of Income, you'll never find it and you'll never earn your way on typical income to wealth. It's just not going to happen. You're not going to earn 5 to 10 to 15 X more than your means Cost of living, inflation. Everything always catches up. So how do you make money in large spurts? So one of the reasons I like Patrick to be on the show with me is that we're working in some of the fields that really can lead to surges of income and we'll go over those Really.

Speaker 2: 11:21

Patrick, my favorite things for surges of income is number one the sale of a real estate property, where you have that cash and you can do something to really engage that money and make it grow for you. Number two, the sale of a business or an IPO, like an exit at some point. I love that strategy. I talk about it all the time. With poker, it's all about knowing when to take the chips off the table and stick it in your pocket and play with the house's money Cash out as often as you can. Number three, from hosting live events, live large events all at one time, or product launches. That's the four things that I specialize in. It's the four things that I focus on day in, day out.

Speaker 2: 11:56

You and I share some of that stuff. You're also an avid real estate investor. You've been in the Airbnb game. You've been in the long-term rental game and having multiple horses in the race, appreciation like you're going to be able to cash out and have a large surge of cash from those later. But let's talk about you now, Now that we talked about surges of income, now we know why you're here, besides just pouring into people. I'd love, I'm glad, to have you here as a guest. What are you doing today? Tell us about your business portfolio.

Speaker 1: 12:45

Yeah, so we have the um. Marketers is our marketing agency. So we started that kind of transitioning out of poker into being a software engineer, realizing that, hey, what we're building for people come to us and ask them to build websites and to provide them with that business. And so we went deep on SEO and local marketing and really focused on that and you know, that led to, well, the tools that we want to use for local marketing. They don't exist, or they exist and they're inaccurate or they work poorly. So, being a software engineer, we started building our own tools.

Speaker 1: 13:03

So we have concrete marketing. We have about 400 sites in concrete that we manage, that we build over the last eight years and we're in pretty much every major market around the country. And the goal of that is to help concrete contractors, put them in a place where they can scale and grow, because their skillset a lot of times doesn't align with. You know, it's not true. If you're the best at being a concrete contractor in a city that you're automatically going to get the most business. You have to be connected with the right people. We try to, you know, fuse that gap a little bit for them and give them the opportunity to have the revenue that they need to be able to scale their business and hopefully get some freedom where they're not a slave to the job. Most people start their company because they want freedom and then it becomes like a job in a company that they own, so try to help pull them out of that. And then we have LeadSnap, which is the SaaS platform. So I think we're in 25 countries now. We're really big with local SEO right.

Speaker 1: 14:07

I think the reason that people love our software is the ability to understand things on a local level and then positively influence those which can drive a ton of business. Right, so we were using it for concrete contract. We got people all over the globe using it in all kinds of different niches. And then we have Rank masters right, which is our, our, our coaching program, teaching agencies. When, when we were building this company, one of the first big moments that I had which was like I, it was amazing was we pulled ourselves out of the company and my wife and I spent two years traveling around the world. Right, we lived all over the place and life is short and being able to help people have that type of freedom, whether they're a marketing agency or a concrete contractor. That's what it's about, and you know, leadsnap and RankMasters are both contributing to that possibility for agencies and then the marketing company. You know that's kind of where where I uh the impact that I love to have.

Speaker 2: 15:09

So let's go back to concrete marketers for a second. So not everybody knows what concrete contractors mean. So just for the people out there that are maybe blonde like me, I know cause I've asked, but what exactly does that mean? What kind of companies are those?

Speaker 1: 15:21

Yeah, so let's say you want to get a new driveway at your house, right, and it's all busted up. You're going to do a search for like concrete Las Vegas, concrete contractor Las Vegas. You're going to call somebody up and then they're going to come out and they're going to give you a quote, right, so it could be that, or it could be the epoxy flooring within a garage or concrete polishing or the decking around the swimming pool, these types of things.

Speaker 2: 15:44

Okay. So yeah, most American homeowners have a driveway, you know, and then they have a garage floor and people like to take care of their stuff, so that makes sense. I just want to make sure we made that clear. So let's get over to the agency for a second. One of the things that we teach at Rank Masters and really I say we, it's you, you are the magic dust here. Man is like focusing on niching down, right, and the idea of you're not the home services marketing agency, you're literally the concrete marketers, like where you specialize in concrete, and I know in a lot of my sales training that I teach our students and my students across my other companies like niching down and being able to talk uniquely and specifically, even psychologically, talking directly to your perfect customer, is so much more powerful than being a generalist. Like, what's your take on that? And was there a moment where maybe you started general and you realized, hey, this isn't working and decided to niche down? Like what was that that journey like? Or that process?

Speaker 1: 16:39

Yeah, absolutely there. There was a moment, you know, um, playing poker and kind of like. Moving through the stakes, I routinely ran into people that I'm like, well, this person is a lot smarter than me. It's just like, hey, I graduated from Harvard Law. Or like I work for NASA. And it's like holy cow, like right, when I got into the marketing space and I started seeing the people that were really successful and I was talking to them and I didn't have that same like insecurity or feeling right, where it's like this guy's making $50,000 a month and I asked him like like what did you do before? Like I worked at an auto parts, an auto zone. I was a cashier. I'm like wow, like okay, and I kept running into that and through our conversations I was like I don't feel like there's something else that these people are doing or something that they have.

Speaker 1: 17:32

And I started to notice some patterns in people. And then I was fortunate, I kind of fell into it. I had bought a rental house out in Vegas and I needed to have the decking around my pool repaired. And this guy comes out and we ended up making a deal and I do well for him and was able to move up to kind of the supply chain and he gave me a bunch of referrals. So then I was like forced into niching down and I started to realize all the advantages that were associated with it and my business started to grow and I'm getting referrals and I understand the sales process, my content writers and developers everybody knew.

Speaker 1: 18:08

You know, if you kind of like you'll see this everywhere you go in life, right, like if I've got a problem with my heart, right, I'm going to go find this like specialist that focuses on this, this unique issue that's with my heart, and that person gets paid a lot more money than a general doctor. Right, and you'll notice this in, in, in every scenario. Whenever there's like a specialist, they, they do better. You know it's, it's the saying, right, it's better to be an inch wide and a mile deep than a mile wide and an inch deep. And, like when you are niched down, you have the ability to as you always say, chris, to predict success. Right, that's like. Have the ability to, as you always say, chris, to predict success. Right, that's like if you're all over the place, that's not going to work out very well, a hundred percent.

Speaker 2: 18:49

Yeah, we talk about in marketing where, if you go and you pay someone for marketing services without the ability to predict success, you're gambling right Versus investing the money when you know you're going to get a return.

Speaker 2: 19:02

And I think it's powerful to be kind of a safe pair of hands, as Carl says, with their investment to the point where you know without a shadow of a doubt you're going to crush it, because this is uniquely the scenario that you work in best. Like these are the people I work with every day. I know your business better than you know it yourself and I think that's a huge part of it. So your journey kind of started as almost like a scratch your own itch, a way to kind of get a discount potentially on some services at one of your homes, and you were able to leverage your ability to learn quickly and pretty much help somebody. Probably get more of the high quality traffic from, like Google, my Business and that kind of like started your whole journey. I've heard other stories like that where they've had this moment where they weren't even considering being in their profession, but they did it at that moment to serve themselves or they did it to help somebody else. You're like wow, I think I'm onto something. Is that kind of how it happened?

Speaker 1: 19:53

Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I built a few other sites and my first one I kind of came at this from a different angle, where we were building sites that we owned and then we would rank those in the search engines and when leads would come in, we would find a partner to sell those leads to. And the first one I did was like a towing site and I was like, well, these guys aren't really sophisticated and there's like a ton of competition here. I was like I don't think I really like this niche.

Speaker 1: 20:20

And then, moving into concrete, where the average ticket is a lot more than towing and the barrier to entry for a concrete company is higher because they've got to have different machines and skills, whereas you think like a carpet cleaner, maybe they just need a van and they can rent a carpet cleaning machine.

Speaker 1: 20:40

So I'm like the barrier to entry is higher, the competition is lower, lower, the average ticket is higher, the leads are worth more to this company, right, so they're going to close more because there's less competition, which means I have more value to them, and these things. You just start kind of like figuring this out right of like wow, there's a lot of, there's a lot of benefits to this with with concrete being like blue collar. There's maybe less sophisticated, like seos that are in it, and it's nothing against like I love the guys, right, but like you go to something like a, an attorney, they're like the seo sharks are swimming in that pool, right. So it was just kind of like a lot of things lined up at the same time and you know the next thing, we know we're like well, this is our niche.

Speaker 2: 21:22

So, getting back to surges of income for a second, what are the plans over the next three to five years? If you're comfortable talking about it, if you don't want to talk about it, you can say pass. But when you build an asset or a resource like a business like that and you're constantly focused on I know what we teach in Rank Master, so I know this is on your mind is really building it so it has the ability to thrive without you. We want to focus on stockpiling great human capital, great resources, better SOPs, really good hiring systems, really good retention systems, things like that. And what we're really focused on and mostly in my world is all about building enterprise value. We're really trying to build the ability for the business to thrive without the owner's involvement, without our environment involvement, because that's where businesses become really valuable, right? So with that in mind, is that a part of your vision to have the ability to sell the concrete markers one day, like to bring in a giant surge of income? Is that on the table?

Speaker 1: 22:20

Absolutely, it's on the table. You know, I think I always question when people are like, hey, that that's never going to happen, because it's like things change every day. Right, so it's definitely on the table. You know, I think the ability to kind of like cash or chips out and then put a portion of them back on or spread them into different areas and not being so like net worth heavy in one bucket, right, it just seems like common sense.

Speaker 1: 22:50

I'm so excited with this stuff that you teach. I've been to the dealmaker events and they're fantastic and it's such a golden opportunity with the dealmaker, right? I remember these stats of like one in 15 businesses for sale actually sell, but as the baby boomers come to retirement, that's expected to go to one in 24. So to have a surge of income that allows me to go, and what you guys teach is like, hey, you're not using your own money, but maybe it's to live off of, or maybe it's to start different investments and be able to play in that world more. That sounds amazing. So I'm not. You know it's. It's, it's taken a long time to build this and we've got something that has a ton of value. And maybe the question is like we cash out, or maybe we we bring in another CEO that that runs this and gives me, you know, even more of my time from this business.

Speaker 2: 23:47

So I have conversations like this every day, right? I'm almost like a guidance counselor for a lot of our higher level students, and vision's a big part of it, right? So there's a concept of beginning with the end in mind, which is huge. You can't get to that moment by mistake or by accident. Very often it happens, but it really comes down to being intentional about the decisions we make, right? So, when a big exit is the goal and in what time period, by when it changes the way we make decisions in our business and what we focus on.

Speaker 2: 24:16

So here's an interesting concept. Not sure if you've ever heard this from me, but Carl and I teach this. It's a concept I came up with about two years ago and it's the concept of trading your business for a new one. Like what if you could go to the business dealership lot and trade in your, your business for a new one, one that has a newer model, one that has different customers, different industry, better margins, better, better customers. Maybe it's in a different city, Maybe it's a business that is something that's going to sell for a much higher multiple.

Speaker 2: 24:45

Because what's interesting is, when you started the Concrete Marketers, what you were passionate about where you were financially where you were in life. What was important to you is very different than what it is today. So one of the things that I like to think about a lot is beginning with the end of mind. Obviously. Why would we build something if we didn't want to cash out at some point? There's a mission driven, but there's also understanding that missions are usually only three to five years. A lot of people kind of get bored or their passions change. But the other concept is, if I wanted to trade this business in for a new one later, wouldn't I want to take good care of it? Wouldn't I want to make sure it holds its value? Wouldn't I want to get it? So it's more desirable for a buyer Right. So just some thoughts to put in your head, but it's one of the things that we think about a lot.

Speaker 1: 25:30

Yeah, I like that. I mean, this is like having a business and having skill sets that can raise the value of it. You've created something and the sole value of it is not just the monthly income from it, right, yeah, and sometimes we get caught in that and we don't realize that, hey, this is a big world and there's a lot of other stuff going. You know things going on and I'm one of those people that's interested in like a million different things. So you know, I I do know what my plan is. Um, I don't like I'm happy to share it with you, just not on on, like in front of this, of course that's why I said yeah, yeah, but uh, there's, uh, there, it's.

Speaker 1: 26:11

It's awesome when you have something that you've created, a value and all the doorways and opportunities that that can open up for you and I just bring it up because it's so relevant to what I talk about every day.

Speaker 2: 26:22

Like I mean, I have that even on my ring like the idea of positioning so intentionally our actions daily and letting almost our our guide of what we're looking to do become the compass for a lot of our decisions we make in business. It's crazy how much faster you can get to it right. Like I remember the time where I learned from my buddy Clay the concept of what would have to be true and I ended up figuring out that there's really no limitations to what I can accomplish and I needed to learn how to think bigger and just ask the right questions, like what would have to be true for this to work, and things started happening. I was able to manifest things so much faster. So you and I have spoken a couple of times, I believe, about my goals.

Speaker 2: 27:03

For anybody listening, I'm 38, two kids two kids in high school got started young. I had kids and figured out life. I didn't figure out life and then have kids. Everybody's on their own journey, right. But one of my biggest goals for a long time is to retire by 42 or have the ability to financially retire, not have to do anything the first of my life by the age of 42. I'm not even on track, no-transcript. There is a moment where I'm so open to whatever paths in front of me. I'm just excited about the journey and there's a like a laissez-faire type vibe sometimes people have, but at the same time you can have that and have the intentionality of the destination at the same time, and it's crazy, in the same amount of time people can accomplish 10 to 20 times more, right? So I just know that you and I've talked vision and goals and we have big plans.

Speaker 2: 28:15

And you're like me, though, where, like, my guiding principles are tattooed on my arm. I don't know if you guys have all seen them, but it says the teach, guide and mentor, and really, for me, that is the success indicator. Am I achieving what I'm supposed to be achieving if I'm teaching, guiding, mentoring people every day, like I coach three to five hours per day on Zoom, as you know, like across the different businesses, like that's the only reason I'm here? And I know just like I think Zig Ziglar said like if you help enough people, get what they want out of life, you're going to have everything you could ever desire, right? So that's what you and I do. We're more about giving back and Carl same. Reason I partnered with Carl is because it's mission over money. But at the same time I do have some really big, audacious goals that I'm going after. I know you do as well. So I just admire you for that and admire your heart for service and for helping people and glad to be a part of it.

Speaker 1: 29:06

Yeah, man, it's, it's, uh, it's been, it's been amazing. You know, chris, um, you know that saying that is like you're the average of like the five or 10 people you spend the most time with.

Speaker 1: 29:13

I had heard that probably a couple hundred times before it clicked. What it meant and like it. For me, what it meant is that you like, when it finally clicked, it was like I need to be intentional and I need to like think about these positions and draft people into these positions. So when you and I we were going through a, uh, a mastermind group and I was like man, like I don't know how it was like what do you? What do you say when you wrote, like as a guy, like you're a married guy, I'm a married guy. What do you say to a guy where, like hey, um, we set up like a, a serious friendship Like we're we're in this like short-term mastermind, like how do we continue this relationship?

Speaker 1: 29:54

You know, and and we, we stay plugged in. But one way to do it is to be intentional about it. And and it's like hey, I'm starting this coaching program. You know a ton about this stuff. That's. That's different than what I know, like starting a business with somebody I got, we. I like you may not know it, but I was like I'm, I'm bringing this guy with me. I want him to be a part of my life and I want to draft him. I was very intentional about that position. You know it's.

Speaker 1: 30:21

It's that heart and that desire that you, when you resonate with somebody, it's it's hard to find that right. It's like as we grow older, we get more we have a really clear understanding of of the principles that matter the most to us and we're we're less to some extent, even if you try to stay open-minded, you're less tolerant for the people that are going to be in your inner circle that don't have those principles. When you're 21, it's not as big a deal. When you're 40, 35, things start to change where you're like I'm just not going to waste my time on that. So to find somebody and pull them in. That's amazing, that was awesome. And you and Carl, you've got the same thing right. It's obvious that you guys meet on so much more than business right, you guys.

Speaker 2: 31:07

It's obvious that you guys meet on so much more than business. I'm laughing and people listening maybe on like Spotify or Apple really are not going to be able to see this. But I'm going to share my screen, I'm going to talk you through what I'm seeing so you can hear it. But I think about that moment in Step Brothers where he's like, did we just become best friends? And he's like, yep, you know, it's like it's one of those moments. I've had a few moments like that in my life. I'll stop sharing my screen here, but I've had a few moments in my life where some of the most impactful people I've ever been involved with, like an intimate friendship level for a long time, started with those moments Like, wow, we're going to be best friends and man, we got to work together, we got to figure it out, and I'll tell you, those moments are so powerful versus. I've had a lot of other moments and I'll tell you a little bit about that where they're not near as powerful, and actually I try to teach people not to do these things, but those moments are beautiful, where you're like, wow, I know our paths cross for a reason and we're going to do some amazing things together, and kudos to you, because I was.

Speaker 2: 31:57

I'm busy. As you know, I'm a busy fricking guy. You should see my calendar. I'll make you throw up Right. You kept calling me, hey man, a couple of group of friend of mine we're going to go here for a weekend and just like hang out, it's free, it's just like a mastermind, no fees, like. And you invited me like three times. I'm just, I'm in the stage of my life where I have my wife and my two kids and we're really like busy and I have these brick and mortar businesses and I have all these other businesses. But we stayed in touch and we figured out a way to be a part of each other's lives. Right On the other side of it, though, I hear this a lot, and when you and you understand this uniquely maybe some of the listeners who maybe have some level of authority out there in your industry you have a lot of people who come to you almost magnetically who say how can I be a part of your life, how can I add value?

Speaker 2: 32:48

And actually that's one of the things I reframe it when people ask me that question, because that's not the right approach when you find someone that you know that you want to either follow them, uh, have them in your circle, be a part of their world. This is one of the people, even selfishly, who's going to help me get to the next level. Like that's not the right approach, and for me it's, it's not a turnoff, but for me it's just not exactly what I'm hoping to hear when someone comes up to me Because I go to events and I'm hosting big events. You've been to some of my events, the bigger ones I've done and I have like 25 people come up to me and say, chris, I just have to be in your world.

Speaker 2: 33:20

What can I do to add value? Do you need an assistant? And I'm like, and I just can't, I can't deal with any people like that, I just can't. What are your thoughts on those? I know you get people like that a lot too. What's your reaction to that? Or what do you wish they would say to you? What would be different enough to stand out?

Speaker 1: 33:32

It kind of feels icky on some way. They're putting you up on a pedestal and it just doesn't. I don't know. It just feels weird. But when someone, if you have a conversation with somebody that you want to be involved with and like you start to understand them, like, instead of asking, like, what you can do, just like go and take a guess at it and create something.

Speaker 1: 33:56

So for Chris, like asking you to these things, it's like hey, I've got a group of other people that I think are going to provide value to. We've got this awesome setting. Do you want to join us? Now, I'm not putting you on this level above me. That kind of feels weird. I'm giving you something that's attractive and I'm putting it out and saying okay, do you want to come be a part of this? Right, so it's. It just feels healthier, I guess. So, like, rather than like, tell me how to make your life better. Like, why don't you actually listen to what I'm saying? Evaluate me, prove that you understand by choosing something for us to do where we can build that relationship together.

Speaker 2: 34:33

I think a lot of it and I get some of that icky feel too. But I also get some of it where people maybe have a sincerity. It's just they don't know how else to say it too. Yeah, 100%. And I feel both sides when I see people who come to me and say, like, what can I do to add value or whatever, and I can feel it's coming from a real place of just trying to better their world and really just want to be around you. Like, can you mentor me? Um, I'd rather them ask me that question, Right, but I try to re-coach them sometimes and say let's approach this a little differently. Right, I'm incredibly busy.

Speaker 2: 35:04

I have a lot of the people that I find that I want to work with. I keep them for a long time. I try to take as good care of them as I can. I've got some people I directly mentor, but I also have a lot of of the time that I need to do things that I need to do. Like, rather than say how can I add value, I try to coach them into like, what keeps you up at night?

Speaker 2: 35:23

What keeps you awake at night? Like, what I need someone to do is solve problems. I pay money for people to solve problems for me because I don't want to solve myself or they're better at than I am. So for me it's more like what bleeding problems can I solve for you in your life? Like what keeps you awake at night Thinking about, like my consulting for equity training and my consultant framework training a lot of it comes down to where are bleeding problems, what are the things that are making me lose sleep or stressing me out the most.

Speaker 2: 35:52

Can I solve those problems for you? Like? That's a totally different question and I usually say, all right now, ask me again. Ask me what keeps me up at night. And then they asked me. I was like this is what I've got going on. I it's a fear of dropping the ball, fear of making a promise and not being able to deliver. Um, specifically, these three things I need to get done, that I haven't had time to do, or these three things that I don't have time to learn how to do. I need to hire somebody, but I didn't have time to find them. Like, and it's amazing, Sometimes people pick the ball up and they run with it Um, you know, or sometimes they don't, but it's just kind of an interesting thing and I know, being a magnetic guy yourself, you get that a lot but just an interesting question that I teach people to ask, but it's really helpful.

Speaker 1: 36:31

Yeah, absolutely, I would say I think it's great. It's exactly like through the conversation, as you get to know the person. If you're asking these questions right and you're really diving deep and trying to understand them, this stuff comes out and then you can just be that solution, without giving me a job to try to figure out who you are so that you can build a relationship. It's just kind of like a weird it's. It's a weird dynamic that, and I love it. I take it as a compliment every time you know that ickiness?

Speaker 1: 37:02

not around that at all. It's, it's, it's amazing for someone to ask you that question. It just feels strange. Sometimes, you know, it's like I don't know how to answer that because I don't know you very well, you know.

Speaker 2: 37:15

Yeah, it's like a cordial response. Hey, I'm flattered. If there's a way I think we can fold you in, I'll let you know. Like it's just kind of a passive answer. But yeah, I'm a weird guy though, patrick. I answer things in weird ways. Sometimes I don't answer questions and then I coach them and then I answer them and ask them again, like I was that guy that when people called me telemarketers, I'd actually pause them and say, okay, let's try to start the call again. Say this to me instead. And every time it flips it freaks them out. They're like, what, what, excuse me? And I said, listen, this is what I do? Is I coach salespeople like all day. Can you call me? Like, start over, we're going to say this, this, this, and then you're going to see a different result. And I actually have people call me back a year later, five months later, saying, wow, you changed everything. That was everything I needed to hear. You know, that's why I coach salespeople as much as I do, because I love that moment of helping them feel clarity. So, yeah, maybe I'm just a weird guy.

Speaker 2: 38:06

Let's dive into SaaS for a minute. So software as a service, s-a-a-s. I was just having a wonderful conversation with a guy just a few minutes about who was going after buying SaaS businesses. And SaaS businesses in my world are pretty interesting. In the business acquisition side they sell for much higher multiples than the average business does and that's really because it's very consistent revenue. Often they're very sticky. Sometimes there's annual packages. People buy right the software as a service. This is something that you've been diving in for a long time. You're a software developer, you have a team and really let's go back to the concept of scratch your own itch Like correct me if I'm wrong, if anybody's seen the video, if you can just show your shirt. Mine says do hard shit. Yours says lead snap. That's your software company. Like did this start as a scratch your own itch business? Like you were just trying to build a better mousetrap or solve a problem for your own clients.

Speaker 1: 38:59

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, when I was playing poker for a living, I'm trying to like what's the strategy where I can get this like 2% edge or this edge or this edge within the rules of the game? Right, you're trying to get better and better and I'm a problem solver. So when we're building the agency and there's stuff that we need that doesn't exist, right, like well, that's not the end, let's figure out how to solve that, right? So we wanted to give our clients better service, we wanted to have an advantage over the competition, and so we just started building. But we didn't have the intent to sell this and turn it into a SaaS. It was 100% an internal tool when we started.

Speaker 2: 39:40

But over time you're solving the problem for one of your clients and then how did that moment happen when you realized I have a business here? Or how did that moment happen and go in as much detail or little as you like where all of a sudden you're like wow, I think other people who own businesses like mine need this and can benefit from this. Like, where did that transition from a secret tool that you created for yourself versus something you sell to others?

Speaker 1: 40:05

Yeah. So I was at a mastermind and I'm talking to people and and someone says like, hey, how do you solve this problem in your business? What do you guys do to manage these Google business profiles? And I was like we have an internal tool. And he said, well, can I see this thing? So I was like, sure, yeah, I'll show you this thing.

Speaker 1: 40:20

I showed it to him and then there was like this 10 second or 15 second pause where he was trying to think of the way to phrase it and say it, and he was like, can I pay you to use this? And I was like, oh, why didn't I think of this before? Like I was so in the weeds, was trying to solve the problems, that I didn't realize that this is going to be applicable. We're an agency managing local and there's millions of these across the country, across the world, and this tool can not only help us, it can help all these other people, and we hadn't built it to position it that way.

Speaker 1: 40:57

So there was a lot of development that was needed before it was ready to go to market. But that was that moment where they saw it and I saw their eyes and their face and I was like they're clearly impressed. I didn't know what was going to come out of his mouth and then he was like you know, can I pay you? And I was like it's sometimes like you feel such, you feel like such a fool because you're sitting on something that that has so much value to other people. You don't even know it.

Speaker 2: 41:21

So let's talk about what lead snap. Is anybody listening, watching? Um, can you just explain what lead snap is? What problem does it solve and for who? And the best application.

Speaker 1: 41:34

Yeah, so, uh, you know it started out as a CRM, so managing like the phone calls and form submissions with like automations to follow up on this stuff. Um, and you know, then we have the Google business profile. So if you're searching for something locally, that maps area that shows like the little map with three listings and the stars, that's the Google business profile and that's depending on what other elements are in the search, those can change. Someone could be running Google ads or not or some factors. No matter what the case for local, that's going to be the most important area. That's where the most clicks are going to happen, the most business is going to come through, and that's very proximity based. So if I do a search from here for concrete contractor and I go a mile down the street, my results will be completely different. And I go a mile down the street, my results will be completely different.

Speaker 1: 42:28

So we built a tool that does a lot of automations around managing that stuff to improve the rankings with more. With higher rankings comes more visibility. So as a business owner, with more visibility comes more opportunities to close more business in their business, regardless of what the niche is, you know. So you have a lot of automations and you know. So you have a lot of automations and you know AI intelligence around that, things about following up to get reviews. You go out and you do work, follow up and automatically get a review. That's a ranking factor for that area.

Speaker 1: 42:53

We built our own phone system so you can buy local phone numbers all over the world and say, like call me and Chris for the first five seconds and if we don't answer, then forward it to Jared right, or like, during this hour, go this way or press one for sales, like we've seen these types of phone systems, so we have that. So we have. You know, we've got local phone numbers around the world that handle that. So a lot of this, a lot of these kind of and obviously there's tons of other pieces hiding in there but that's kind of like a general overview of the features.

Speaker 2: 43:29

And for those of you who don't know much about marketing and the difference between scalable and non-scalable marketing methods, you know there's something called active intent, right? Active intent is when someone shows up, give an example in Google, and they're searching for something right and really, at the end of the day, when you get into lead generation Patrick correct me if I'm wrong I know I'm not because we teach this stuff but high intent leads with active intent are the best leads you can get. So, like a business owner let's say they have a home service company like a concrete company, do they have the time to work a giant pipeline of prospects that probably won't buy? No, they're busy, they're running their business, they're wearing multiple hats. For them it's more valuable to have fewer leads but higher quality. So, like the idea of really tapping into the highest quality, highest intent leads first is always an agency's first go Like, we always want to tap into the highest quality, highest intent leads, so you can have leads that close at a higher rate, people who are closer to buying on the sales cycle, right?

Speaker 2: 44:28

So that's just to give anybody kind of an idea of what he's talking about behind the types of leads that he's focused on with SEO and local SEO management, as compared to like TikTok ads or Facebook or Instagram ads, where people didn't wake up saying you know what. I'm hoping somebody puts a concrete repair or epoxy coating ad in front of me today, because I'm really looking for that. Like they didn't wake up looking for that and that's just active intent. So I just wanted to add that in for everybody's perspective, right. So, beyond that, like, who's the best user of LeadSnap? Is it the local business owner who's trying to do everything itself or herself, or is it the marketing agency owner that specializes in maybe lots of stuff or just in what you do? Who's the perfect user for your software?

Speaker 1: 45:09

Yeah, I mean we obviously we have a range of users. We have some that are small business owners, and then we have marketing agencies and then we have white label marketing agencies who do the work for other agencies and they take advantage of our product. I would say, you know, for us our typical user is a marketing agency, somebody that is managing a lot of Google business profiles, someone that is working with somebody that has some sort of local service, whether that be a home service or it could be a dentist or a lawyer or, you know, a restaurant. So people that have a local space and when someone searches it, they want to show up at the top because that's going to lead to more business for them. And a hundred percent what you said about active intent, that's what the Google business profile is all about.

Speaker 1: 45:56

I mean, it's just kind of imagine that you're driving down the road and you get a flat tire and you're in the side of a busy highway. My thought is, let me go on to TikTok and scroll and hopefully a tow truck ad shows up. I'm going to search Google, right, and I'm going to find somebody to come now, right. So that's the type of leads that can come through. That is like Google has so much buyer intent associated with it, somebody looking for someone to answer their question immediately which is I mean and to be able to give them a tool that can help provide directions on how to optimize things in a way so that they show up more often. It was a big need in our company and it's been a big need in a lot of others as well.

Speaker 2: 46:39

Yeah, it's interesting. I paid a check yesterday 2,500 bucks. One of my rental properties is having some water issues in the basement, so I've had I had to go online and I had to find a company that did crawl space work. I had to find a company that helped me with like restoration and getting rid of the like mold or mildew inside the house as well. As the restoration company then came and told me hey, the big cause of this is something we don't fix and that's adding gutters to your house, right.

Speaker 2: 47:05

So I just struck a $2,500 check yesterday to a guy real nice guy, younger guy, uh, in the area, who is looking to get more business Right. And I'm thinking to myself you know, really number one as a marketer. I know highest intent leads are going to be the best right out of the gate. We need to get him siphoned traffic from Google my Business, of course get people who are searching for exactly what he offers in his area. He's got to really optimize the website, like all the stuff that you specialize in, and sometimes we don't even think about this as business owners. Instead we're just trying to figure out the fastest path to revenue, and sometimes advertisements are such a sexier path of customer acquisition where we can just be siphoning the better traffic. But it just made me think about you. It'd be a good referral for you actually, so I'll send them your way.

Speaker 2: 47:51

But it's interesting like and learning all the ins and outs that a normal business owner wouldn't know Like all right, well, how big is your geographic area? How much search demand is there? Let me go look and show you right now. Here's what you're showing up for now versus the keywords we want to be ranking for. Here are the neighborhoods where you're showing up Like you're the modern day founder of the heat map, right, and I claim that for you, whether you claim it yourself. But showing up like the fact that you can rank differently every square mile in a city, based off where the device is, that someone's searching the same exact keyword and you can show up in different places, like I think it's such it's cool and how you've specialized in that. And then you how you specialize your agency and helping one type of company.

Speaker 2: 48:32

If I was a concrete company looking to hire you and I was interviewing companies or I talked to you, I'm not going to have any shadow of doubt in my mind. I'd feel confidence that you're going to crush it for me. So, hey, I want to do a little experiment. That's okay, we don't have too much time left, but I want to share my screen, and I want to. I want to be vulnerable for just a minute. I want to bring up a couple of the brick and mortar businesses that I own. Can you see my screen here?

Speaker 1: 48:52

Yes, I can.

Speaker 2: 48:53

Yeah, like the idea of looking at, so I right. So Ninja Warrior training gym Huntsville, alabama, where that I don't live in Huntsville, but where that business is like we're going to dominate local search. There's not one thing that's not me, right, I own a bowling alley as well, right, so bowling alleys in Scottsboro or we can say, bowling alley birthday parties, bowling alley birthday party near me right, I'm gonna crush it. I don't have any. Actually, altitude and stars and strikes and bolero are all bidding on those keywords.

Speaker 2: 49:34

Right, but I'm gonna win in my local area because I'm not fighting anybody else for the for the traffic, right, but it's interesting, like people don't understand how many plumbing companies there are in Scottsdale, arizona, or they don't know how many um electrical contractors there are in Columbus, ohio, like, and. And the difference between showing up on Google maps or Google biz, like my business, um lips listings, is like it's, it's everything, it's absolutely everything, and being able to optimize the way that you show up online is huge. So if you had to give me some critiques, this is not my best work. Please forgive me, but this is my bowling alley Victory Lanes. What should I be doing differently? Should I have Scottsboro here as the name, do I have enough reviews?

Speaker 1: 50:20

It's always going to be relative right, so you need to do more than than your competition right. And that could be different in huntsville, alabama, than like la right, and so one of the things let's just like click over there where it says see photos, if you can just kind of like hover your mouse over that for a second did you want me to click it or just hover my mouse?

Speaker 1: 50:45

Usually if you hover, but you can click into it. So, like I want to see, there's some easy, easy, like low hanging fruit, that that you can do. You probably have a ton of pictures. How many photos? If you click on that where it says see photos off to the right, that'll that. That should tell you. You may have to click into it with this view. They change things, Um.

Speaker 2: 51:06

I'm not seeing. I don't know if that helps you at all. We're still scrolling.

Speaker 1: 51:09

I can't see. I think the screen froze. I'm just seeing the uh, the original Google search.

Speaker 2: 51:14

Oh, okay, hold on a second. It's on the wrong one, so let's, let's, uh, go back to share screen. Anybody listening here? Just bear with me. We're still new with technology. Okay, so can you see Victory Lanes now?

Speaker 1: 51:28

I do yeah.

Speaker 2: 51:29

Yeah, so if we look at Victory Lanes specifically, we see photos. There's a lot of photos in here like tons and tons and tons.

Speaker 1: 51:37

That's great. Yeah, so that's an easy one. That's an easy one to do. Right Is like you've got those on here, I like to make sure we've got a hundred, but if our competition has 200, then I want 300, right, I want to beat them. You got like a checklist that you go through. Now let's click on those reviews right there and scroll down just a little bit. Okay, so there's no replies to these reviews. So this is one of the things that we do in our platform and we'll get you set up. Here is like we can have it set up to automatically reply. Right, it will read the review and they will automatically reply. So Google wants to see that you're engaging with your customers, and when you don't reply to a review, they're like Okay, is this business really? Like, what are they doing? Are they? Are they, do they care? We, we don't know, right, so that would be an easy one to go after, right.

Speaker 2: 52:28

Okay, so more photos. And when you say photos, is these like we would add them ourselves, or user generated photos?

Speaker 1: 52:35

You can absolutely add them yourself. You know, and, and you could. What you can do if you want to show activity is like you could upload them all at once. But with us, what, like one of the things we do in our platform is let's say, you have 500 photos and you want to add 10 per week over the next 50 weeks. Well, you could just upload them and say, okay, drip these Right. So that would be a way to show constant hey, we're constantly adding new information. We would want to make sure this, this profile. There you go. If you kind of scroll up at the top there and just hover over that photo, you see there's 137 photos.

Speaker 2: 53:06

Got it, yeah, so let's let's go to my Ninja one. Can you see my Ninja gym? Yep, here, yeah, so like Ninja obstacle Academy, it looks like I have 141 photos, one, 16. And, by the way, this is all organic. This is not something I've been focusing on. You know I'm I'm much bigger into my bigger businesses. Um, these aren't tremendous moneymakers for me. I love both these businesses. You know, obviously I was on American Ninja Warrior. I started this gym. It's a great story, but say it again, these are passion businesses for you.

Speaker 2: 53:35

You definitely are, but at the same time, like you, specialize in such a different style of marketing than I do, and so this isn't my, my wheelhouse, so let's break this one up. So I know I got good photos. I'm embarrassed to even click on reviews, because you're probably going to say the same thing.

Speaker 1: 53:53

I probably have zero replies. Well, that's okay. Oh, there's some right there. See right Response from the owner, the first one right there.

Speaker 2: 53:58

Okay, well, my business partner, justin or Melissa, probably did that, but yeah, or, or Tiffany, our manager, or something, but yeah, so there are some responses here. Okay, okay, woof, at least we're not terrible in every business. Yeah, okay, what else? What else should I be doing, though, cause I think this is important People don't know what they don't know.

Speaker 1: 54:19

Yeah, so it's. It's. If you scroll down a little bit more, we can look. So one of the things that we can do is there's questions and answers. So that question was asked four months ago. We could answer that and then we could ask additional questions. As the owner, we can put in the most common questions that are being asked and answer those.

Speaker 1: 54:38

And it's speculative with a lot of SEOs on like well, what if I ask a question with a keyword and I answer it with a keyword? Well, there's people go back and forth on whether that can really influence the ranking, but I would say it doesn't hurt, right? So what Google's looking for in part is the completion of this. So you want to go into the backend and make sure that you're filling out every little piece. Click on the about section there up at the top. Ok, there's a lot more stuff that you could load into this area. That's that's not there yet. You can answer more questions and when you answer those, those show up. So Google's looking for like OK, I want to try to give the best answer to somebody searching and if none of the people have the right stuff in here, then I'm going to show like whoever I think the best is. But as you're building this out, like, just be complete. This is easy, this can be done in a half hour. We can complete all these different things and it'll just be forever there, right.

Speaker 1: 55:36

Then there's the website right, your website. You guys have bowling parties and stuff like this and ninja warrior parties. You guys could put that on your website as a case study. Or it's like hey, we had this birthday party and it was July 4th or whatever, and there's 20 people and it was this theme. These are facts that can't be disputed and you've got pictures on it and Google's really deciding do I trust this company? And when you load it up with things like this and evidence, then Google has to trust it. So, for you, all of these events are going to take place in the gym, but if you're a plumber or you're in concrete, some of these jobs are going to be done here. So that gives me an opportunity to build relevance to a certain location within town.

Speaker 2: 56:25

Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, it's interesting. Even people who are doing well in businesses like these are both very good, successful businesses. They do very well. I've definitely grown Victory Lanes tremendously since I bought it. Ninja Obstacle Academy actually started and we were one of the biggest in the country right before COVID, and we have like a really cutting edge business model compared to everybody else. But even someone doing well, we still don't know what we don't know Right and we don't. We don't focus on the littlest things that can make the biggest difference. That's why I think it's so cool how we all specialize in different things Right, because for me you know me, I'm a paid ads guy no-transcript.

Speaker 1: 57:32

Everything perfect right. There's nobody out there who's doing everything perfect right. It's just like doesn't exist. So, like you've done enough. You've moved enough levers that have resulted in business growth. And as we learn, we realize and we connect with more people, there's more levers that we can pull and it's just like how much do you want this to be Like? How big of a business do you want for this, right? What? What's the ceiling that you put an effort towards it, or you find the people that can, and things grow.

Speaker 2: 58:00

Yeah, I think it's so cool too and probably have to wrap up here in a minute, but the thought of there's so many different ways to be successful, right, like me, I can take a brand new business like that. Just run paid ads and I can fill that bad boy up, right, victory Lanes. When we bought it, we filled it up, we tripled or quadrupled their business very quickly just by bringing awareness. And we did it through paid awareness. And we did really strategic Facebook ads leveraging awareness, engagement, video views, building up the likes, doing some giveaways, making sure the community knows we're there. A lot of times people don't even know you're there, right. So I'm really good at that type of marketing and we've done really well with that. And then, when I was in the agency space before, with the medical agency that I was working with as an owner and a partner for a long time, like we had people in the agency that specialized in that part and the Google local and the SEO and the PPC, and then my job was everything else, like I was. So I think it's it's interesting how a more of a comprehensive marketing approach is so much better. Like we were just talking about this earlier this week on.

Speaker 2: 59:00

One of our calls together is if you want fragmented results, have a fragmented marketing approach. Like, if you want to be able to bring someone general results, be a generalist, right. But if you really want to get extreme growth and predictable growth, you've got to specialize as well as you have to have the ability to predict success. You need to have winning strategies that you can turn on at any moment, and that's just why I love marketing, because it's such a unique industry where we have the ability to add so much growth and change in someone's business. Like. One of my favorite things is I teach consulting for equity. I think you've seen probably quite a few of my things on consulting for equity, right, but if you look at, kind of like, what do business owners actually want? Hopefully you can see the screen. But business owners want increased revenue, they want better profit margins, they want to expand the new markets, they want their time back, they want to get rid of risk, they want to hand off responsibilities, they want freedom, right. There's all these things that business owners want and we have to work on as business people and as marketers and people who are growing companies. We need to remember that people buy the whole, not the drill. Right, the drill would be marketing. The drill would be, maybe marketing services or running. They're not going to have to carry payroll in your world, right? They want the ability to stop paying for Facebook ads but still be able to make money, because they're putting their focus on things that don't pay a diminishing return, like in marketing. Patrick, that would be five-star reviews, things like SEO, things where they can stop putting money into it and it's still contributing continuously. Right, people want the whole, not the drill.

Speaker 2: 1:00:48

One of the things that I like to talk about on Surges of Income podcast is that the skill sets we need to learn that are always going to be in high demand. That helps you write your paycheck for the rest of your life, makes you recession-proof your life, where you can start over at any moment and still be thriving. I think marketing for me is such a conduit to learning how to tap into surges of income. That's why I'm so passionate about it so well. Thanks for pouring into people, thanks for sharing your story, thanks for telling us about everything you got going on in your life with lead snap and the concrete marketers, and what you and I are doing together with some of our partners at rank masters.

Speaker 2: 1:01:18

Let's end with this, patrick. If someone wanted to learn more about you, they wanted to learn more about either LeadSnap and they're an agency owner, or they have a small business and they really want to rank better online and get some of the highest quality leads, or a marketing agency owner that wants to learn more about how to grow their business, or even a concrete company maybe is listening and wants to learn about how you can work with them. How do they find you?

Speaker 1: 1:01:40

Yeah, so, patrickshannoncom, right, so learn about how you can work with them. How do they find you? Yeah, so, patrickshannoncom, right. So that's, that's an easy way. We've got the concrete marketerscom, we've got leadsnapcom and then rankmasterscom. So, but, patrickshannoncom, I don't have a K in my name right P-A-T-R-S-E.

Speaker 2: 1:01:56

Yeah, the K is not only silent, it's missing right? It was inefficient, we got rid of it Right. So here you go, patrick Shannoncom.

Speaker 1: 1:02:10

There you go, yes, sir. So that's a good way. You know I'm, I'm easy to reach. I try to pride myself on being approachable. You know, if your goal is impact, then then, like, what do you have to do to have an impact? So, um, you know, that means you got to touch more people and, and you know, that's why I love being on podcasts like this, hanging out with people like you, chris, is it gives me that opportunity to connect with some new people.

Speaker 2: 1:02:29

So, yeah, my door's open. Awesome man. Well, patrick Shannoncom, patrick, no K just to see, uh, easy to find. You're all over YouTube as well. You've got a lot of really good content that you've been pumping out. So thanks for doing what you do for everybody. Thanks for being mission over money, and I'd love to continue to pour in to you and you pour into me. Iron sharpens, iron man.

Speaker 1: 1:02:53

And let's go chase some surges of income together. Yeah, let's go, man. Thank you so much for having me on here.

Speaker 2: 1:02:55

Appreciate it, chris, my pleasure. All right If you're listening on Spotify or iTunes or you're watching this on YouTube. If you want to connect with me at all, you know how to find me. Follow me at Chris Moore Speaks on YouTube or Instagram. This is the Surges of Income podcast and I'll see you in the next episode.